When you think of biodiversity loss, your first thought might be related to our waterways -- plastic pollution killing fish and turtles, coral reef bleaching, ocean acidification -- the list goes on. For all communities, water is life. But the health of our waterways is under attack due to climate change and unsustainable human practices. What does this mean and what can we do about it?
In this episode, we learn about Indigenous leadership and knowledge in protecting waterways with Niria Alicia Garcia, a Xicana Indígena community organizer, educator, storykeeper and human rights advocate devoted to protecting the sacredness of Mother Earth and the dignity of historically oppressed peoples. We talk about following Indigenous leaders, what water means to communities around the world, and her work with Run4Salmon, a prayerful journey to restore salmon runs, protect waterways, and Indigenous lifeways.
We also talk with Pat Schnettler, the founder and CEO of 12tides, an ocean-friendly, organic kelp chip snack company. We speak with him about the power of regenerative agriculture, restoring ocean ecosystems, supporting small ocean farmers, and how entrepreneurship can make an impact in protecting our waterways.
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Hosts/Reporters: Clare Sparling, Jessie Goldblatt, Luca Tjossem
Writers/Producers: Clare Sparling, Jessie Goldblatt, Luca Tjossem
Guests: Niria Garcia, Pat Schnettler
Audio Editor: Luca Tjossem
TRANSCRIPT:
CLARE:
Operation Climate presents our Threats to Nature series.
Hey everyone, I'm Clare and I'm going to be your host on today's episode where we dive into the topic of biodiversity in our waterways.
For me the oceans remind me of happy memories with family and friends for scientists when they hear the ocean, they may think of the fact that it is home to between 500,000 and 10 million million.
With someone in the seafood industry, they may think of it as a source of food and for indigenous communities living along waterways and may remind them of their way of life, cultural history and connection to the earth, but whatever it be, economic, scientific or cultural, I think that most of us have some connection to our waterways.
Unfortunately, like most parts of nature, the biodiversity in our waterways is under pressure. The marine environments that produce 50% of our oxygen on, off or being pushed to their limit. And while this reality can be really scary, I think there's a lot of hope in action that can be spoiled when each of us leverages our unique connection to the waterways to protect them.
JESSIE:
Hey everyone, I'm Jessie.
LUCA:
And I'm Luca.
JESSIE:
And today we bring in two guests, Pat Nettler and Niria Alicia Garcia, both with very different life experiences and connections to our waterways.
LUCA:
Yet despite the differences in their story.They both are using their connection to our waterways to help address the problems they face and find pathways forward.
CLARE:
So to get us started tell me a little bit about Nuria. Who is she and what does she do?
JESSIE:
Nuria is a youth activist who seeks to preserve both indigenous practices and the sacredness of the Earth. One of the ways that Niria devotes herself to this goal is through a prayer journey called Run for salmon.
NIRIA:
My name is Niria Alicia I'm Chicana Indiana, born and raised, Tacoma territory, also known as the Road Valley in Southern Oregon, and for the past six years I've been in this deep, devoted work to being in service to the waters. Particularly to the water caretakers that in the Pacific Northwest, actually from Alaska all the way down to Baja, the caretakers of the water are the salmon, so it's been an honor to, you know, reconnect to my humanity through an understanding of my interdependence on other more than human beings who I owe everything.
CLARE:
Run for salmon. I don't think I'm familiar with this group. Could you tell me a little bit about their work.
JESSIE:
Yeah, so salmon are essential to healthy ecosystems by bringing essential nutrients to the environment in Northern California, the Shasta Dam was built around 75 years ago and continues to prevent the salmon from returning home.
To raise awareness about this issue, but also about the importance of protecting waterways, strengthening salmon runs and revitalizing indigenous lifeways more broadly, run for salmon was founded by the Winnemem Wintu Tribe.
Here's how Niria explains it.
NIRIA:
Yes, so Chief Caleen Sisk of the Winnemem Wintu Tribe. Set out on a prayer a. Couple years ago with this. Deep knowing of. Like you know, the salmon are on the verge of extinction and the Winnemem Wintu Tribe has a prophecy that says. That when there are no more salmon in the rivers, there will be no more Winnemem Wintu. For them you know, in upholding that prophecy they knew they. Had to do something.There needed to be a massive reawakening and re remembrance for not just the Winnemem Wintu people about all of the other people who live on their territory and on the territories along that watershed.
And so our prayer has been to follow the salmon, you know. Chief Caleen Sisk says we need to follow the salmon. They're gonna lead us. They're going to show us the way and so run for salmon is a 300 mile prayerful journey that literally follows the salmon from the mouth of the Bay Delta all the way up to the spring on Mount Shasta, which is for the Winnemem Wintu people where creation began and so this prayer is about waking everybody up along the river. Everybody who is connected to this water, waking them up and helping them remember that water comes first, taking care of the Earth comes first, and so for the past 6-7 years we've been following the salmon.
300 miles, two weeks and you know there's indigenous people. People from all different cultures you know, as you know the Bay Area in California is a very. Diverse place and. It's just been all about that. You know, recognizing that we need to follow indigenous wisdom on whatever territory we're on.
CLARE:
I think a lot of times when people talk about biodiversity loss, we often forget the cultural aspect of.It right like? The fact that destroying biodiversity also destroys a cultural treasure and the livelihood. Of communities.
JESSIE:
Yeah, and what's it out to me during my conversation with Niria was how she really was interested in the roots of these environmental issues and to her. It was because we as humans have lost sight of our responsibility to the natural world, she explains.
NIRIA:
Because we have forgotten. What our responsibility is and what our role is. We have grown as a collective to think that we're more powerful than. We are wiser than. We don't need to be respectful. To any other lifeforms, and that's why we have seen through that amnesia, we've seen the rise of industrialized agriculture, the fossil fuel industry, the big tech boom, all these industries that are completely desecrating and destroying our our waterways, polluting our waterways and pushing our water relatives to the verge of extinction, which is where the salmon are at right now.
I don't know if you saw the news, but in California there was hundreds of adult salmon that did not... They did not make it home to their spawning grounds and they're already a species that is, on the verge of extinction. And it's because there was not enough cold water that was being released for the temperatures to stay cool enough for them to not literally die of heat exhaustion.
And so that's why this work is so important. For us to really ask ourselves, who are we right? You know you don't see. Birds having existential crisis is they know when to migrate. They have not forgotten. The whales know when to migrate. They have not forgotten their role. Beavers, I'm sure you've also. You may have seen. Beavers, they they build their dams a lot of times when pipelines are spilling. It's the Beavers that are the 1st to go and build the dam. They have not forgotten what their sacred role and responsibility is.
And so one of the elders that I follow is Chief Caleen Sisk and she's the one who you know tells us you know. If if we. Want to do something good? We need to follow salmon. We need to follow the waters we need to follow the salmon because they follow the waters and they follow creator.
JESSIE:
And this is where Niria Garcia saw indigenous communities coming in. Because while much of society has become disconnected from the earth, as Maria explains, indigenous communities have not. In fact, the United Nations recognizes that indigenous people represent less than 5% of the population Yet steward over 80% of the world biodiversity and their knowledge can be used to protect biodiversity. Here were Nuria’s thoughts on the issue.
NIRIA:
As indigenous people. We have not forgotten. Our responsibility. We understand. That we ain't nothing. If the river is not clean. That we are nothing if trees are being cut down. Winnemem understands that there's no Winnemem without salmon. Machika people understand that there's no Machika people without corn.
We have not forgotten our relationship to the more than human world, and unfortunately the majority of the people in this world. The unique role that indigenous people that we play in these times is helping other people remember that responsibility and our place. In the sacred web of life. When I'm in California, I follow California leadership. Because they understand the laws that the creator put on that land. They understand that and they have not forgotten that they have not forgotten that salmon in the water is a key indicator for the health. Of the ecosystem and when there are no salmon, we should be alarmed, right?
I wouldn't know that. Because I because I'm not. I'm not from California, so as indigenous people when we migrate territories, we need to pay attention to the stories of the original peoples on whose land we're in.
That is the unique role that indigenous communities are playing in protecting biodiversity right now. Unfortunately. Indigenous rights are left out, I mean look what happened. At the COP this year.
No indigenous people walked out because we have been fighting and I was there two years ago when it was in Spain and indigenous people have been carving out a space there for decades. Right, yet we have to fight tooth and nail to be. Included in and to have our rights respected. And so the the issues of indigenous rights is that when indigenous rights are not respected. Biodiversity is put at risk. Why Because like like like you read the quote before. 80% of the world biodiversity is in the stewardship of 5% Of the world population and that 5% is indigenous people. So in order to protect biodiversity we need to respect and protect indigenous rights.
It's too Wobbly if we just Create you know rights for biodiversity without indigenous people who have that traditional ecological knowledge of the biodiversity That's being protected.
CLARE:
Yeah, I think this recognition of our connection with and responsibility to protect the off that indigenous communities have maintained. And we had discussed this is such an essential part of conservation, because it really highlights why it's so important to include in amplify indigenous voices in these conservation effort As this perspective goes deeper than just specific solutions, as Nuria puts it, we have a shared responsibility as humans to take care of our natural.
But luckily I hear that there are still some groups who do in fact, remember this responsibility.
LUCA:
Yeah, we have another guest, Pat, who's an ocean activist enthusiasts and conservationist who founded. The company 12 Tides, here's how he described the inspiration for his work.
PAT:
I spent a number of years in sort of large scale seafood. I did everything from 100 meter. You know factory trawling vessels to smallholder shrimp farms in Indonesia. And I saw all The bad things About the way our current food system intersects with the oceans, and I thought that that intersection could be a lot more mutually beneficial. While I was sort of doing various things in the world of seafood, I started to meet people who are growing kelp on these sort of regenerative ocean farms, and about this idea that we can grow nutrient dense food with 0 inputs and have a net positive impact on the surrounding Marine environment is really compelling and should be a much bigger Part of the Food system and so I started to think of ways we could make that a reality, and I think I'm making your great tasting But also, you know, highly nutritious, ultra sustainable snacks out of that was a Way to get started on that journey.
CLARE:
Ooh, that's really. Cool and what I especially like about 12 Tides is this idea of regenerative ocean farming. Could you tell me a little bit more about that?
LUCA:
Yeah, for Pat this is a big Part of 12 Tide's mission.
PAT:
In the big. Picture regenerative food is going to be sort of the movement of our generation or the food system. Sustainable or like maintaining the status quo isn't good enough anymore and things need to be You're an active benefit for the environment and our food system needs to be an active benefit for the. Environment and it's capable of being so, but it's going to take a major shift in every facet of the way we produce and consume food, and so the way we play into that is. In the oceanic food system, which right now the oceans cover 70% of the planet, but produce about 2% of our food. To feed 10 billion people, I think that equation is going to shift a little bit. It's gonna be a lot more than 2%, and so there are two ways that that can happen.
One is by A proliferation of our current extracted seafood industry.And one is by this new opportunity that we have, which is regenerative ocean farming, and we want to make that regenerative side of it sort of the dominant means of growth in the oceanic food system.
Kelp is the number one way to do that. Specifically what I mean in terms of regenerative so it has a number of benefits. number one kelp absorbs carbon at an unbelievable rate. So first of all, the oceans absorb about half of the carbon that is in our atmosphere and The excess of carbon in the oceans is what causes acidificacion. Acidification is a primary driver of biodiversity loss in the oceans, and as seaweed grows it absorbs a huge amount of excess carbon in the oceans, and so doing that, at least on a localized level, you sort of. Mitigate the impacts of acidification on the marine ecosystems. Creates a a much more hospitable place for biodiverse marine life, and if you wanted to let you know, sort of look at a study at the ultimate outcomes of that.
Yeah, The Nature Conservancy have recently Put out or or. That sort of measured both the biodiversity and abundance of marine life in the areas surrounding kelp farms. And compared to you know, areas without kelp farms and biodiversity was about 30% higher and marine abundance was about 40%. Are in the areas surrounding kelp farms, and I think that it's sort of a proof point of how help can be a truly regenerative driving factor for the oceans and for our food system as opposed to older extractive.
CLARE:
Oh yeah, I feel. Like there's so much focus on always just being sustainable. But I like How Pat challenges us to do more than that And actually make things better.
It actually reminds me a lot of what Nuria was saying about our responsibility as humans to protect the earth and just really shows the divorce ways that people can lift that out.
I have also seen that 12Tides sources their kelp directly from small farmers. So how does this play into the omission of ocean conservation and regenerative farming?
LUCA:
I found this idea super interesting as it ties see under both the idea of protecting the Earth and supporting between these livelihoods into one.
Here's what Pat said.
PAT:
So we sourced directly from farmers, no middleman. You know, we want to help support. You know that shift in coastal economies.
So number one. We pay really good prices. Which allows the farmers to make money which allows them to do things in the most sustainable possible way, and that's the way we want to see the whole ecosystem grow.
And we've created a really high value application which which sort of allows us to do that from my time in seafood, I learned that Sometimes food supply chains are a little bit too long. In seafood, sometimes they're really long.
You know a lot of like shrimp that you might be eating. People may not want to hear this, but large shrimp that you might be eating might have been frozen or unfrozen and then refrozen again for like 15 months before you eat it. And it probably changes hands you know 10 times in between The shrimp pond and you. And that length and opacity is what drives unsustainable practices in seafood is because you know consumers can't. When consumers can't see how it's actually produced, 'cause there's so much shit in the middle, then the producers have no incentive to do things the right way.
And so I think in general my general philosophy is that food supply chains should be shorter and people should be able to see exactly where their food is coming from and how it's produced.
And I think that is one reason that we work directly with the farmers in the US.
CLARE:
Yikes, I never Realized how long the production lines could be with the seafood industry.
Also from a more general standpoint, did Pat have anything to say about what specifically is the unique role of companies like 12 tides in protecting the oceans?
LUCA:
Yeah, having emphasized the way companies can make positive action possible, this is what he had to say.
PAT:
What's really important for us as a mission driven company and part of my job as the CEO is to tie or business to positive ecological impacts, one for one, and so you can't have one without the other. I think you'll see a lot of companies out there. That and I don't want to. You know, hate on this. 'cause they there's some positive element to it. But they're like. OK, so we kind of like have this business and then we donate 1% of our you know sales to this thing, sort of on the side. And they're like someone. Related, but for me, uh, truly impact oriented company, you know, ties those things so you can't have one without the other.
And so for us, it's the sourcing of this regenerative kelp. You know, we can't grow our business unless we're growing more kelp and more kelps not going to grow. And unless we grow our business. Yeah, 'cause we have like basically whole sets of farms that are sort of carved out and planted for us.
Now that's I guess the role in impact that that we want to create.
Directly, I'd say that's first and then secondly we want to try to build a community around some of these issues related to ocean conservation and restoration to, you know, bring people into what are really complex topics in a way that's a little bit more digestible. And a little Bit more positive. So not just like don't do this like don't use single use plastic or don't you know? Et cetera. But like what are the active bids that we can be doing for the oceans? Or what are the organizations we can support that are doing good things? We want to try to bring those To light as well.
CLARE:
Now listening to Pat and Niria I feel like one of The main things I have drawn from these conversations is the fact that while each of our connection To our waterways is different. It can be cultural and spiritual. A fine childhood memory, a source of food and a livable climate. we all rely on the. Always and one thing I really appreciated. Was how Pat And Nuria both showed us how each of us can use our different connections as a standpoint from which to support ocean conservation and to them, conservation is not just about preventing things from getting worse, but instead it's a collective responsibility to make them better.
Well before we close out.
I was wondering if Pat and Niria had any advice or wisdom for young people specifically looking to take next steps.
LUCA:
Yeah, so overall Pat had a lot of good practical advice for young people looking to start a company with social impact.
This is what he was talking about.
PAT:
I I got. A couple pieces of advice. So I I think first of all you have to pick something that you are over the top passionate about because The only thing that I can guarantee you in starting a business is that you're going to get punched in the face Like 100 Times in a row and in order to stand up again, you know, after you get punched in the face for that 100 time, you have to be like insanely passionate about The thing that you're doing almost irrationally so and so I I think you gotta pick that thing that like goes beyond like I think this could be a good business or like I could like make a lot of money here, Maybe we could like sell this so for something one day, like that can't be the only reason. 'cause I I at least you know for me that would never be enough to, you know, help me stand up After getting punched in the face so many Times.
Secondly, I would say Just like do it get out there. You know we started I was like making stuff in my kitchen. I came back with like garbage bags full of kelp and we're like experimenting with different chip types and I went to a farmers market and I would bring different chips every week and and see what people liked The most and. This is pre COVID, obviously, but yeah, you give your chips to people and they try him and they I got everything from like this is the best thing ever Just people like spitting it out and calling it Dog food, and I think you have to like allow yourself to be Sort of vulnerable in that way.
'cause you are going to get like negative feedback, but just starting like getting out there. It's the best way to sort of expedite your development process and like really understand what your idea is and their who you're catering to, what your customer is, what your value prop is. Start to zone in on Product market day.
JESSIE:
Niria, really encouraged young people to change the way they dress and think about environmental issues. When asked what advice she had for young people, here's what she said.
NIRIA:
Listen to Indigenous people follow Indigenous leadership. Learn the names of your rivers be. You know, just. what what's happening with your local rivers? Because water is life. And if we're not taking care of water, they're going to be selling life right back to us.
And if we don't get a job, we're not going to be built. It literally able to afford to live.So I think as young people we need to. Feel that responsibility and feel that entitlement. It's our future, but ultimately you know wherever you are. Find out who the indigenous people are on the territory that you're at. Find that and find out what. Is happening to your water.
And just humble Down. humble down and be in service because you know. As young people, we may feel the urgency. We may feel the rage, but there's there. You know there's been elder tool in this fight for a long time and we we have to work together. We have. To you know, couple our passion and our energy with the wisdom and patience of those wise elders. So that we can. Work together in in a good way.
CLARE:
To end this episode. Jessie and Luca. Do you have any action items for us.
JESSIE:
Take Niria up on her advice and find the indigenous communities in your area. To see what work they're Doing and what you can do to help.
LUCA:
And of course, go and support. 12 tides.
We have included a link in our show notes to their website where you can go try some of their kelp chips.
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