Joy Reeves is a climate advocate, author, and student of Environmental Science and Policy at Duke University. Earlier this year, she released her first book, titled "Growing Up in the Grassroots" where she explores how people across generations and political identities can come together through empathetic communication in the fight against the climate crisis. In this episode, we talk to Joy about ideas from "Growing Up in the Grassroots" and answer the questions: How do I talk to others about climate change? How can I show up for the climate movement?
Get "Growing Up in the Grassroots" on Amazon, and visit Joy's website at joyreeveswrites.wordpress.com for more information!
Inspired to do more? If you want to learn how your time and skills can best help the climate, you can create a climate action plan at youchangeearth.org/operationclimate.
Producers:
Katherine Li '22, Jessie Goldblatt '24, Emily Nagamoto '24 Audio Engineer:
Emily Nagamoto '24
Music:
ReCreation by airtone
Cali by Wataboi
Transcript:
EMILY: If you’re listening to this podcast, chances are you know that climate change is a crisis that threatens our livelihood, especially for generations to come. You know that we must take collective action to fight against this crisis. But not all people think this way. In a country where the mere existence of climate change is questioned by some representatives in political office, talking about climate change and climate action can be a frustrating ordeal for many people, on all sides of the political spectrum.
How do we approach the climate change conversation? How do we use empathetic communication to get our ideas across? How do we, as climate activists, continue to show up for the climate movement in the middle of a global pandemic? These are the questions that we hope to answer today with our guest, Joy Reeves.
KATHERINE: Welcome to Operation Climate, the one-stop-shop for environmental issues that matter to Duke and Durham community members. We’re a podcast run by Duke University students, aiming to inform and empower Duke-at-large to create lasting change in the fight against climate change and environmental degradation.
JESSIE: Today we’re joined by Joy Reeves, a climate advocate, author, and student of Environmental Science and Policy at Duke University. Earlier this year, Joy released her first book, titled Growing Up In the Grassroots, where she explores how people across generations and political identities can come together through empathetic communication in the fight against the climate crisis.
KATHERINE: Hello, my name is Katherine.
JESSIE: My name is Jessie.
EMILY: And I'm Emily.
KATHERINE: And we're from operation climate. Today we are joined by our wonderful friend Joy Reeves. Thank you so much Joy for joining us today.
JOY: Thank you so much for having me.
KATHERINE: So I've known you since freshman year. And when I think of you, I think that you are like the definition of a climate activist. I’m just wondering, how did you become a climate activist and why?How did that identity start to form for you?
JOY: Yeah, I've carried this identity for a long time. I know everybody kind of has their own backstory for how they become interested in the environmental field.
And mine had a lot to do with growing up in a rural area in Frederick, Maryland. I didn't really have any neighbors. So I was kind of...You know my twin brother and I would spend most of our time outside and my dad's a big environmentalist, who has worked for the EPA and OSHA safety regulations so he started teaching me about what climate change was and what it meant for the planet From a very young age. And I always had this kind of pit of my stomach feeling like something's wrong in the world and I can't really see myself in any other profession. So I think that's a good indicator of wanting to become an activist.
KATHERINE: Awesome. And also, how did you become interested in scientific storytelling and why do you find this to be an interesting method to share your ideas?
JOY: I think science by itself is very powerful. And there's no shortage of climate data, that's something I cover a lot in my book, but the problem is that science alone can't really propel policymaking in a meaningful way, unfortunately. You have to have something that's speaking for the science or talking about why the science is important.
And that's a lesson that I learned at Duke actually through the Huang Fellows Program, which is a science communication fellowship, where I was working in a lab by day, studying sea level rise and saltwater intrusion, and then in the evenings, I was learning how to make podcasts and deliver TED talks and have debates on the science that I was doing. So it was a very cool combination.
KATHERINE: Awesome. And so how did you decide to write a book to communicate these ideas?
JOY: Yeah, I've had these ideas for a long time always kind of brewing in my head from experience. But I never thought I'd write a book until I received a message from a Georgetown professor. And I was like, Is this a scam? Yeah, I'm very young. I feel like I'm too young to write a book. But through some phone calls with him, I quickly learned that anybody really if you put in the time and the research can write a book, and I kept my book interview based. So I was talking to a lot of experts and professionals of all ages, rather than trying to formulate my own ideas when I'm I was only 19 when I started the book. So it was very experienced based.
JESSIE: So getting into the meat of the story, pun intended; throughout your book you draw on the theme of empathetic communication as a way to bridge the divide on climate issues. Can you explain this concept and why it's important in order for unity in the climate movement?
JOY: Of course, empathy or in my book I came across the term STEM-pathy from a lot of the experts in the field. And it goes against the idea that in science and engineering and math you have to be a completely objective and kind of story-less narrator in communicating the data. So empathy or STEM-pathy when you're connecting with an audience might mean connecting with the people you're speaking to, talking about their hometown or talking about the big game last weekend or something that everybody in the room can relate to, before you dive into “I'm a scientist, and here's the the message or the danger that I'm presenting to all of you”. And if you take a second to relate to your audience and build their trust even with like a dumb joke or something like that in the beginning of your presentation, it can make all the difference.
EMILY: And going along these lines of like the emotions behind explaining the science and involving the environment. What is Climate grief and why is this idea useful?
JOY: Climate grief is a very 21st century term or eco-anxiety. And what it means is it's talking about the psychological toll that climate change takes on each and every one of us. So I talked to Dr. Jennifer Atkinson, who's a professor at the University of Washington. And when we had our conversation. It was right in the heart of wildfire season, which this year was more than catastrophic to the students that were at the University. And climate grief is the title of her class that she holds to offer space for those kids to reflect on how their lives and their homes and families are being impacted by climate change. And you know, it's easy to try to deny science and say that the data isn't real. It's fake news, whatever you want to call it. But it's much harder to look someone in the eye and deny that their house was engulfed by a wildfire that was unusually large and uncontrollable.
EMILY:I feel like there's often this separation, like you were saying that someone may be able to deny data, but particularly between generations. We can see that, you know, even in everyday conversations I might be talking to my friend about climate change and then and get a completely different response from my parents. So how can generations come together to fight against climate change?
JOY: That is a very good question. And throughout the course of my book I found that there are a few common values that all of us share pretty much regardless of age or background, and some examples of that would be taking pride in the national parks and natural spaces that we have in the US, wanting to create high quality jobs for people and there's like a surplus available in renewable energy, and another one might be our kids and our kids’ kids.
Everybody kind of has a parental drive of some sort to protect children. So that's another commonality that we have.
And then finally, I list a few others in my book, but finally, I think the activism that we're seeing today on the streets is very similar to what our parents grew up with. In the sense that there are these revolutionary environmental ideas that are appearing alongside social justice issues today. Black Lives Matter and LGBTQ+rights, and they're pretty much intertwined with the environmental movement that we're seeing.
KATHERINE: So you said something that I feel like I really relate to, when we were talking about climate grief and then talking about, you know, we all kind of have a parental drive. When I think about climate change and I know that I want to have a family in the future. And I become very that makes me more motivated to try and create a better future for my future kids. And in the book you you talk about this idea of “putting the parent glasses on” and I really liked that idea. So could you just go into that a little bit more. For example, a conservative, who has been fed the knowledge that climate change is not a serious thing and then suddenly they can change their perspective by quote unquote putting the pair of glasses on.
JOY: Mm hmm. That's a central theme of my book, for sure. And I actually discovered it in a podcast that's phenomenal and similar to Operation Climate called Ways and Means from the Sanford School of Public Policy. I contacted a researcher that was featured in that podcast, Dr. Emily Pechar. And she found in her research that if you present a survey to two different groups of people, and in one of them you prime the audience with questions about being a parent and having children and future generations, and then find out their partisan identity and ask about climate change, republicans and conservatives in that context were 12% more likely to answer that they care about climate change to a high degree, and 12% might not seem like a lot, but it can make the difference in Congress and in voting.
So I think putting on your parent glasses, is the language that
that they use to talk about the research, I think that is super important because if you are meeting with a part of some group that agrees climate change is not real, but then you go home and see your grandchildren and like play outside with them, gardening and talking to them and they're concerned about climate change, it can really change your personal views on whether the planet is experiencing a climate crisis or not.
KATHERINE: With this in mind and with the idea of empathetic communication as a whole, how should we go about having conversations on climate change, especially for people who maybe don't know a lot about climate change or people who might even not acknowledge the existence of climate change? Any specific phrases or strategies, etc.
JOY: Mm hmm. Well, I think as environmentalist our instinct is to launch into alarm and panic rightfully so because that that's the reality is that we're in a climate emergency. But, um, I do not mean this in any way to sound sneaky or in authentic, but you have to sort of mask the alarmism at least at the beginning when you're talking to a climate skeptic or climate agnostic, because then you're missing the first step of connecting with them and gaining their trust. Spend a few minutes talking about ideas that you really agree on, and then start to weave in environmental issues that you care about. And if you're someone that they already respect and are friends with, they'll, they'll definitely open up to the ideas you have about the climate crisis and make sure to be respectful and be civil and listen to them as much as they're listening to you. So it feels like a give and take conversation.Not just like you're throwing statistics at them.
JESSIE: Yeah, and in addition to having these productive conversations, how can individuals like you and me show up for the environment during this unprecedented time given the limitations of social gatherings like protest during the COVID-19 pandemic?
JOY: That's such a good question, and it was on my mind at the beginning of the summer when I was starting work for League of Conservation Voters. I was enthusiastic about it but asking how much can I actually do from, you know, from a basement sitting on a couch not leaving because of COVID. And I discovered, there's a whole world of digital petitions and letter writing groups and really efficient ways of contacting Congress, you can still make phone calls.
And I think as valuable as it is to recycle and take short showers and leading that kind of individual lifestyle that you care about the climate, it's just as important to retain a certain level of political activism, even if it's from your computer and making sure to research issues that are happening around you. Like if if there's a development that's happening 30 miles away from you that you really care about stopping you can write letters to the right people and make a difference with your community.
EMILY: What are your thoughts on performative activism? Is it better than nothing, or do you think it can do more harm than good?
JOY: Yeah, this is a tricky question especially this past summer, we saw a lot of performative activism around racial justice. And I do think it can be disrespectful to consider yourself an activist, just for the sake of having that reputation. So I think that can be destructive. I think if activism is performative at first, and then you learn more about the issue and actually engage yourself, just using, you know, have an infographic post or something as a starting point. I think that's totally fine. But the key is to meaningfully engage yourself.
EMILY: I'm turning to a more personal note, um, what does activism mean to you?
JOY: I have so many definitions of activism. I think it takes a lot of forms. Activism to most people conjures this mental image of going out on the street, holding a sign. And that angerS Some people. Some people think it doesn't do anything. Activism is so much more than that. It's first of all getting yourself into a mindset where you care from from your gut about an issue. And then you take steps to act on that issue. You make phone calls, you write letters.
You do research, and you create art and pieces of writing that reflect how much you care about the issue. And then I would also say you don't stop there. You draw others into the issue as well. Friends and family and people in your community. And you can really use social media as a tool to make that happen.
KATHERINE: Thanks so much Joy you brought up a lot of really good points. I think a lot of people Don't know that activism comes in so many different forms and there's so many ways that people can engage with the social causes that they care about, um, it doesn't have to just be going out onto the streets.
JOY: Right. I think scientists are activists in their own way. They're doing great work for the earth.
KATHERINE: Mm hmm. Right. Definitely.
KATHERINE: Yeah, so thank you so much for chatting with us Joy. I think that's all the time that we have for today. But before you leave. One last question, where can people find your book, Growing Up in the Grassroots?
JOY: Yeah, my book is available on Amazon, both as an E book and as a paperback. You can search up the title and or my name and you'll probably find it easily. And then my author website is joyreeveswrites.wordpress.com and there's more information there.
KATHERINE: Thank you so much joy.
JOY: Thank you. It was a pleasure.
JESSIE: Like Joy described, when having conversations about climate change, it’s important to gain the trust of your audience, touch on the values that you all share, listen to one another, and ultimately, go out and start these productive conversations. There are so many forms of activism, even ones that can be done in the middle of a global pandemic, and if fighting against the climate crisis is something that you care about, having these conversations is a great way to start your activist journey.
KATHERINE: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Operation Climate. Make sure to subscribe to stay updated about future episodes. For more information on who we are, what we’re doing, and a full transcript of this episode, visit our website at bit.ly/operationclimatepodcast to learn more.
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