To amplify COP26, we've teamed up with the UN Foundation and the Innovating for Social Impact class at Duke University to bring you a special episode all about bringing climate change to the center of attention and combatting climate misinformation through having impactful conversations. Why do we need to talk about climate change? How do we go about having those conversations? How can we combat climate misinformation?
Our guest, Devin Domeyer, is a climate scientist and Community Management Consultant at the United Nations Foundation. With the UN, Devin works on Say It With Science, an initiative that equips young climate champions everywhere with the knowledge and tools they need to drive their activism and combat misinformation. In Devin's words, "All the solutions we hope to advance to protect our shared future are because of science. It’s never been more important to combat misinformation and agree on the facts, so we can work together to find the best solutions. It’s time to #SayItWithScience." Devin is also currently pursuing a Masters in Environmental Management at Duke University.
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Guest: Devin Domeyer
Host & Producer: Katherine Li
Reporters: Meltem Donmez, Nikhita Gopisetty, Chloe Nguyen (in collaboration with Danielle Zapotoczny's "Innovating for Social Impact" class at Duke University)
Audio Editor: Katherine Li
Music: Cali by Wataboi, what you thinkin by Wataboi
TRANSCRIPT:
KATHERINE
Hey everyone, my name is Katherine and you're listening to Operation climate, a podcast made by students for students, where we talk about climate change topics through conversations with cool people, and learn about how we as young people and students can take action in the climate crisis. This episode is for the Say it with science initiative from the UN Foundation. Say it with science is a campaign that equips young people with the tools to combat climate misinformation and kickstart their activist journeys.
So listeners, I want to start off today's show by asking you this question. Do you remember when Jeff Bezos went to space, now, if you're American, I'm assuming that you do remember because it got a ton of media coverage. In fact, Jeff Bezos, his trip to space got as much Morning Show media coverage that the climate crisis got in the entire year of 2020. Very interesting, right. And I'm pulling this from a study done by Media Matters for America. They studied climate change coverage in corporate broadcast news from 2016 to 2020. And they found that in 2020, Morning News nightly news and Sunday morning political shows covered climate change a whopping 0.4% of the time. And even with this tiny, tiny number, who knows how much of that coverage had climate misinformation and disinformation. I mean, Fox News is notorious for giving airtime to debunked climate myths and climate deniers.
And I'm telling all of this to you, dear listener, because the climate misinformation and disinformation crises are deadly. Because the climate crisis is deadly. With climate misinformation and disinformation, we aren't able to take the ambitious actions that we need to stop the climate crisis. So why exactly is talking about climate change important? Because we need to talk about it in order to feel like we want to be a part of the solution. But Catherine, you say, Why can't someone else do it? You know, all these scientists and politicians are talking about it all the time. You know, you see Greta Thunberg everywhere.
Well, the most effective messenger for each person is going to vary a lot. Maybe your grandpa bill isn't going to listen to some politician that he has no personal connection to. But you're his favorite grandkid. And he will listen to you. Today's episode is all about combating climate, misinformation and disinformation, through having impactful conversations, bringing climate change to the center of attention and saying it with science.
Have a conversation with us on the show today is Devon Domeyer. She is a young climate scientist and is a communications associate with the UN Foundation. And with a un she created a campaign called Say it with science, which equips young people with the tools and knowledge they need to drive their activism and combat climate misinformation. And these tools and knowledge. They're all very science based derived from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, so you know, they're trustworthy. Also, this podcast was created in collaboration with the innovating for social impact class at Duke University. Shout out to Danny and her class and to Meltem, Nikita and Chloe for being great reporters on this episode. Let's get started. So to start off, I talked a lot about climate, misinformation and climate disinformation in my intro, but let's hear Devin explain what exactly those two terms mean and how they're different.
DEVIN:
So misinformation is something that you encounter somewhere, be it social media, and you spread it not really knowing that it's not true. Disinformation, is when you're actively and intentionally spreading information that you know is false to influence, maybe a political agenda. So it's tough when misinformation is out there because you don't know that you're really a part of it. So the best thing that you can really do is just make sure when you are Telling people about what you saw online, or what you've heard from a friend that you like, check it out first. And you know, if there's one source, that is saying something really strong about it and taking a really strong position, go check out another source, and then maybe a third source, just to make sure. I think educating yourself on climate change is one of the best things you can do. If you are nervous about the climate future, and you don't really know what to expect, because actually, it can be rather uplifting, because there are plenty of solutions to the climate crisis, we just have to advance them.
KATHERINE:
Devon's, right, there's so many solutions, and right now is a perfect opportunity to get those solutions going. Because there are some big things happening for the climate.
DEVIN:
This year, we have cop 26, which is the 26th Annual Conference of Parties. And it's the UN Climate Change Conference. So huge moment for climate, not just because these countries are coming together, which is huge in and of itself. That's one of the best things about the UN building those bridges. But it's a big moment for people outside countries too. So for the private sector for individuals, for activists, because it's a moment where climate is really raised to the top of international attention. So if you talk about climate change, if you elevate that issue, to the top of global attention, at the same time, that these countries are coming together to negotiate whether or not they're going to be more ambitious on climate change, you're having a real impact. And one of the big things about pop is that this year, when everybody gets there, they're expected to update their contributions to the Paris Climate Agreement. So this only happens every five years, it's happening this year, there's still dozens of countries who have yet to do it. So by talking about climate, often, and really spreading the good word, with the science, you can influence those countries, perhaps
KATHERINE:
sparking those conversations is so important. But how do we actually go about talking about climate change? Here's what Devon did with say it with science.
DEVIN:
I think a big thing is about what kind of story that you want to tell, and who you're trying to tell that story to our audience for say it was science, where people we knew already knew about climate change, but we're maybe inundated with some misinformation. So we wanted to hammer home some really essential points. You know, climate change is real. Scientists are certain humans cause it all the main things that we wanted to end on this note of hope. So we included a whole section of facts about solutions, because people are scared. And it's a huge barrier to spreading climate science, even to accepting the fact that climate change is real. Because the fact that we might not have water in 30 years is not something you really want to dwell on, or talk to your mom over casserole. So we wanted to end on the solutions point. And that, you know, we can all be a part of that solution.
KATHERINE:
So Devin talked about how to have conversations with people who already know a little bit about climate change, and understand that climate change is a problem that we have to solve. But what about the people who don't share that same perspective? The climate deniers, the climate skeptics, or even people who just don't care? How do you talk to them?
DEVIN:
So this is a complicated question, because I think the first answer is sometimes just don't, you're not going to change everyone's mind. And especially someone who is staunchly opposed to climate change. Because typically, that's coming from somewhere. So they've probably been inundated with a lot of political propaganda. Maybe it's an idea that's entrenched in their families in their, you know, their mother, their father, their grandfather, so you're probably not going to change their mind. The second reason is that you're probably not the right messenger to change their mind, even if it's just a little bit. Because people are more likely to take climate actions and to believe in climate change, when it's coming from somebody that they trust, and they respect. So if you're on two sides of an ideological spectrum, and you don't even really know this person, you're probably not the right person to try and change their mind that if you know, you know them, they're your brother. I've had plenty of heated conversations with my brother over Thanksgiving about climate change. So just you know, if you feel comfortable and it's you feel like you're the right messenger, just go for it, but you know, it's not your responsibility.
KATHERINE:
Nikita had a really good question here. She asked, with climate change being such a scary topic for a lot of people. You know, especially for young people. We are seeing the effects every day Sometimes even right in our backyards, with the wildfires and floods and other catastrophic events. So how do you actually go about having those conversations, when climate change is such a touchy and emotional topic,
DEVIN:
the first thing is that you don't have to have those conversations. It's not your responsibility to change anybody's mind about climate change. It's not your responsibility to even advocate for climate change. If it's something that you feel very uncomfortable with, then don't do it. Take your own personal actions. And that's awesome. If you do feel comfortable advocating for climate, then there's some there's some tips that you can use to make that an easier conversation. And one of them is to really like take it, take it down and take it back to the, to the now into the personal level. So if you're both from Durham are both you know, living in North Carolina, you can say, dang, haven't we had a lot of rain? And they're like, yeah, and you're like, Have you heard about all the flooding? And they're like, No, what's that about? And they're like, Yeah, this whole town, like cleared out, because of flooding, because it was flooding, like every year, and it was crazy. And they're like, whoa, so anyway, so you can like, try and find common ground, things that might spark their interest, you don't have to like start off saying, the world is burning, you can back it up a little bit. So another thing you can do to make those kinds of conversations easier, is acknowledge that climate change means something different to everybody. So the reason why you care about climate change is not necessarily the same reason the person you're talking to cares about climate change. So really, like ask them where they're coming from, and try and meet them, where they are not also trying to push your ideology onto somebody else. Because they might not feel as strongly that that as you do about something like flooding, they might care more about health care, or about, you know, feeding their kids. And it's up to you to find that line to find, you know, is it appropriate for you to talk about climate in relation to that really reading your audience and being really empathetic.
KATHERINE:
Cool. So connecting with people and really meeting them where they are is a really effective way to have those conversations. But what about using facts in conversations and numbers really sciency stuff? Does that work?
DEVIN:
Yeah, well, obviously, including facts about climate change in conversation is what say what science is all about. And it's very important that when you are talking about climate change, you're coming from a factual place. But no, I don't think that throwing numbers around isn't necessarily beneficial. It depends on again, your audience. So if you're at COP 26, at a conference, in your audience is people who really care about climate and who know so much about it, but want to know, a little more like, throw some numbers and facts, and they'll gobble it right up. But if you're talking to your brother, your aunt, maybe throwing out a bunch of stats at them, you know, right after the next isn't gonna spark that interest, it's not going to reach them, it's going to tell a story. And I think reaching people is all really just about telling stories. If you can throw in some facts, while you're telling that story, make it compelling, then that's awesome.
KATHERINE:
Let's move on to solutions. So dear listener, you have already taken a step in your climate activism journey, because you're listening to this podcast. So how can you take your actions even further?
DEVIN:
Talking about climate change is one of the best things you can do to fight climate change. Because obviously, there's these big lofty meetings with big lofty decisions about, you know, allocations of water and whether or not we should allow fishing in certain areas of the world. But on a day to day basis, what can we do? What can I do waking up at, you know, 8am and going to sleep at 10pm with all these other responsibilities, you can talk about it, because collectively, if we can elevate climate change as something to care about as something that affects every part of life, then that's gonna, it's going to leach it's going to become a collective consciousness and those people are going to get elected, you know, changes in power, it's just important to spread the word. So that's one thing. Another thing is if you want to take it a step further, there's lots of, you know, individual actions that you can take on a day to day basis for climate change. You've heard some of them, you know, like turning off your lights and taking shorter showers that can be scaled up, you can skip a hamburger. There's a great fact that if you skip one hamburger, it's the same amount of water as saving 44 showers. So just one hamburger right. So these like little things you can do for the world. And there's a UN camp Pain called act now. And you can go to un.org backslash act now. And it's just all these individual actions is collective actions that you can become a part of. It's a great, great resource for that.
KATHERINE:
Okay, pause here. So this is a topic that we've talked about a couple of times on Operation climate, this issue of individual action and collective action and systemic change. Do individual actions actually matter in the face of a problem as big as the climate crisis? And the answer is, yeah, here's what Devin had to say.
DEVIN:
So I love that question. Because it's the fallacy of collective action, which is, if I don't do it, somebody else is going to do it. If everybody thinks that, then nobody does it, when it comes to the environment, and for voting on a larger scale, it's the same thing. It's about that collective consciousness. So if you don't vote, or if you don't turn off your lights, and if you leave the water running for, you know, five minutes, when you're just like leaving the room, or if you're, you know, brushing your teeth or something, your roommate will see you, right, Your brother will see your mom will see you, your friend will see you. And they'll think that that's acceptable behavior. And I'm not trying to judge anybody who does these things. It just becomes, again, a collective consciousness of apathy. So you want to just try and combat that with your own actions and you know, set a good example. And then the more people who do it, and the more people who do it, it snowballs, and you have a huge impact.
KATHERINE:
So individual actions matter, and collective actions matter too,
DEVIN:
and then, you know, engage with your fellow students. So we're at Duke. And Duke is one of the most progressive, environmentally forward thinking universities in the country, get involved in student groups. There's one called the Duke Environmental Alliance. And there's ones even outside of Duke, there's the Global Youth biodiversity network, UN Foundation has has a network called the Young climate advocates. And if you want to start now, you can go to say it was science.org. And there's a whole list of climate facts that we've worked with the IPCC to curate, you can figure out how to best use those in your life. So if that's posting it on Instagram, for your followers, who, you know, you think are really interested in climate, that's awesome, if it's just absorbing the knowledge. And then the next time you're talking about food, or fish, just kind of like sprinkling it in somewhere to spice up the conversation and give a little intrigue. Also awesome. However you want to engage with it is awesome. This is a big, a big time for climate, and there's some big stuff coming up. You can get involved whenever you want to there's cop 26, coming up November 1 to November 12. It's the time now to be talking about climate. So really just have start having those conversations with people in your life. Yeah, and just you know, spread that good word.
KATHERINE:
Yes, go and spread that good word. Devin was such an awesome guest to have on the show. We're so glad that she could join us and say what science is a really awesome campaign that you all should check out. So go to say it with science.org to learn more. So it was science is having a lot of cool events coming up in the first week of November. They're having an event all about climate and health and sport. And that's the same week as cop 26. So make sure you stay up to date about that. So again, go to say with science.org To stay updated about all their events and other climate news.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Operation climate and make sure to subscribe and follow us on our social media. We are at Operation climate on Instagram, at op climate on Twitter, and at Operation climate on tick tock too. Yeah, we got into the TikTok game. And listeners we want to hear from you. So give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. That would be super awesome. And if you have any ideas about topics we can cover people we can talk to or just have questions about anything. Email us at Operationclimatepodcast@gmail.com. Also for a full transcript of this episode, with citations and links that you can explore to learn more about this topic that we've covered today, head to our website at bit.ly/operationClimatepodcast. Again, huge thank you to Devin say it with science and the UN Foundation and also to Dani's innovating for social impact class for making this episode possible.
See you next time.
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